M. Saakashvili. Frankly speaking, I did not expect to see the journalists in such a big amount. (smiles). I would like to greet all of you. Today, we had the working meeting with the Speaker of the Parliament and the Leader of minority. We know that we all are concerned these days. I, personally, am extremely concerned about the event and the society so is about the unscheduled, planned speech in front of the National Library, when the crowd of criminals, released from jails, conducted the mass execution on the leadership of the opposition. However, I think that we are all interested in prevention it to be repeated, we are interested to move the discussion to the Parliament from the street, as the street fights, especially political fights can lead us to the wider catastrophe and this is the edge, which we shall never approach again, which happened in 90s and this is our principal opinion. I think, Mr. Usupashvili shares our concern. That is why we had the comprehensive conversation today. I cannot say that we agreed on every issue, they have their position, we have ours. I think that the discussion will continue. The important thing is for us to agree that such topics shall be continued in the dialogue way instead of the ways, used before. I hope that this exactly will be the further development of the events. Of course, we will have considerations within the Parliament, they will have consideration within the majority with the Prime Minister and our conversation will continue in the nearest days.
D. Usupashvili. Let me greet you. We had the working meeting today. We, naturally, did not touch upon the issue, which the President mentioned in the beginning, we cannot agree on this issue and will not agree. I am sure that the act, I signed, envisaged freedom for the political persecuted persons. I did not see criminals near the National Library, there were people, expressing their protest. Protesting, they violated the law and as we have already stated, all offenders will be punished. The issue we agree on, is that such events are not beneficial to our country, despite the inspirer, provoker or initiator. Thus, it will be the correct step to move the political process to the Parliament.
As to the issues considered, we have covered all the issues. As it was already mentioned, we could not achieve agreement, though I, personally, have the impression that this dialogue had the perspective and this is not PR action either from us, or from the President. The will to regulate the situation and find the way out, the Constitutional solution on the whole range of important issues, is shared and realized. Meanwhile, we, the Coalition “Georgian Dream”, once more reiterate and already informed the President, that agreement on the specific issues about the authority of the President in the part of the formation of the Government, is the key to the agreement on all other issues and decision-making. Though, I cannot and will not speak of details, but it was outlined in the dialogue that there are new possible schemes and options as well. Thus, it needs to be considered. The President and his team, presumably, will provide you with the additional details and in a couple of days we will have another meeting. I thoroughly listened to their opinion and the issues, they are concerned of and we will have internal considerations. I reiterate, the agreement is not achieved but the process has the perspective. Thank you,
D. Bakradze. Thank you. I will be brief. First of all, according to my estimation as well, this meeting was working and under the background of the current situation, it is of utmost importance, because there are topics, which we can never agree on, but we all agree that we shall do our best to continue working on all issues, where we can find the common point.
Mr. Usupashvili noted the topics, which are important for the Parliamentary majority. I would underline the issue, which is important for the Parliamentary minority. It is crucial for us to continue the discussion with participation of the opposition and to prevent adoption of any Constitutional changes as a result of pressure, intimidation or physical insult, but in a civilized manner with participation of the opposition. We are ready for normal participation, we are ready for the discussion and that is why we consider it important to inculcate the mechanisms, which will protect the opposition and the opposition MPs from pressure. The issues are very important for us, which are linked to functioning of the Parliament in Kutaisi city, the issues, which concern any possible future Constitutional changes. For instance, the rule of election of the President and some other issues. These are the topics, which we considered today and the consideration will continue. Hence, we could not expect that everything would be solved on the one-hour meeting. According to my evaluation, it was a real working and a good meeting and it will continue. Thank you.
M. Saakashvili. Briefly speaking, to make it understandable for people and to summarize one issue, which is raised by the Government and the Parliamentary majority, this is the authority of the President to dismiss the Government ahead of time.
D. Usupashvili. No, to create the sole Government.
M. Saakashvili. The authority, which is provided in the Constitution. The issue, raised by the Parliamentary minority, and which I am concerned of, is that the Parliament shall remain in Kutaisi city, as it is the issue, so important for regionalization.
The second, that foreign political orientation of Georgia shall Constitutionally be fixed, thus preventing us from dragging in the post-Soviet Union and separate us from Europe and Euro-Atlantic aspiration.
And the third issue – it concerns the fact that the President shall be elected in a direct way and the protection mechanisms shall be established to prevent it from changing in the future and preventing abolishment of the scheduled Presidential Elections. Such change is not introduced. I would like to add, though the proposal was stated that it can be introduced. There is a plenty of time till October, the Parliament has time and to prevent it, we are concerned about these issues for the long-term development of the country. The minority, if speaking accurately, the Government has the problem which will happen in several months. We are ready to withdraw these issues but we are interested in the development of the situation in the next years. It is important for me to remain the Parliament in Kutaisi during decades and centuries. It is important for us to see Georgia consolidated to Europe. I am sure and the members of majority have already thought about it, but it shall be summed up. I do not think that it would be accepted from both sides. These are the issues, which we discuss. Naturally. There are many other issues and anxiety recently, the various statements are made. We have not considered them at this stage because we think, we try to be concentrated on the main topic and thus the meeting was working without any excessive rhetoric. Please.
D. Usupashvili. Please.
Journalist. Mr. Usupasvhili, the President has already stated that he is ready to deliver his annual speech in the Parliament, which could not be arranged on Friday. Are you ready and is the Parliament ready to listen to the President and as I understand, will you continue the dialogue and will you be the only participants or is the Prime Minister going to attend it as well. Thank you.
D. Usupashvili. I will start from the end. The people will participate in the meetings, who are necessary on some stages. The Prime Minister made the statement yesterday and stated that he is ready to be involved in this process and I think, the previous months confirmed that the Prime Minister and the President have no problem with meeting each other but meanwhile this meeting shall entail some results. So, the bigger part of the issues, we discussed, is the Parliamentary themes. Thus it was not accidental that the Leader of minority, David Bakradze attended the meeting. If it appears necessary, and it is not excepted, the Prime Minister and maybe other persons, will be involved, it depends on the issues and the themes. As to delivery of the speech in the Parliament, we were intact in our decision that the Parliament has not refused to listen to the President. The Parliament postponed this event. I will not go further in details. We well know the Constitutional records, the Rules of Procedure and the practice. Such speeches have been delivered in the end of March in the previous years. We would like this meeting to be working, allowing us speak about the issues. Thus, the Parliament will be ready to listen to the President about all the issues, we considered today, to listen to his opinions, and express own ideas. I would like to reiterate that we speak of the short-term topics, because wrong solution of these short-term topics will create distance from the long-term ones. The majority of issues are not unsolvable. This is my statement. But we shall sum up, agree on the form, guarantees, consequences and many other issues, which would be acceptable for the both sides. This is what we speak about, we do not speak who is principally against or who demands indirect election, the President also stated about it, that we have never raised this issue. The Constitutional changes do not include such issue but it is natural that the political force is interested if we have such plan and they want to have the guarantees. So, we will continue working and thinking on these issues.
M. Saakashvili. I would like to explain – first of all, this is not my position. According to the Constitution of France, which is very similar to our Constitution, the Prime Minister has the obligation to visit the President once per week. I suppose that this is not the situation of the emergency. In the downtown, the people released from the jails, you can consider them as the political prisoners, from my point of view, these are the people who use the criminal…… who look like criminals, act like criminals, were sentenced for murder, riot etc. – are the criminals – this is my explanation and I have the right to have my own explanations. There are no 200 politicians in Georgia, not to speak of political prisoners and it was your decision or the decision of those people, who brought it to the Parliament but these people conducted physical insult on the Parliamentary opposition, who were going to the ordinary public event. Today I heard the explanations from the Government as if the SSPS should provide protection. Can you show me at least one country, where the state special protection service provides order in the streets. We adopt more new things in Georgia, when we assigned it on SSPS…
D. Usupashvili. Mr. President, are we here for this?
M. Saakshvili. No, excuse me.
D. Usupashvili. Yes, so let us speak of the issues, why we are here. I have my own opinions on these issues. Please.
M. Saakshvili. Yes, let us speak of it. More serious topic is that your Prime Minister should come to the President… what are you talking about, I cannot accept it without criticism what we offer. We offer that if there are important issues, regarding which the Prime Minister is obliged to come…
D. Usupashvili. You say that the Prime Minister should come here? Is it what you say?
M. Saakshvili. I hope he will…
D. Usupashvili. Yes, of course.
M. Saakshvili. As to the today’s meeting… I hope he will attend it in the future.
D. Usupashvili. Yes, of course.
M. Saakshvili. There is the emergency situation in the country, on the one hand, the Parliament attempts to gain the Constitutional majority in illegal way; on the other hand, the opposition is persecuted in the streets which is unacceptable; and on the third hand, this weakens the international positions of the country and you and me must be concerned of it, Mr. Usupashvili. You know it well and so I do that Georgia seems as something undeveloped country with these shots, aired on TV. It is the issue of our concern. So, this is the issue, where the Prime Minister should be involved. We estimate your involvement and it is good. We are ready to hold wide discussions in the Parliament and we shall have the topic for wide public discussions. Deriving from this fact, we are ready to continue the meeting. We are concerned of the issues. I realized the issues, that the Government is concerned of, I will not reiterate it now. It is enough to continue this dialogue and to arrive to the point, where the agreement would be possible. I still hope that as I managed in October, without excesses, to convey the functions of the Government and the functions, conveyance of which is the Constitutional guarantee automatically. But the order was correct. I still suppose that we will manage to find the way out from the dead-end if we all are involved. This is not time to pose and this is what I wanted to say and not that you should not come. Of course, you should come, we as well will meet the Prime Minister and all other people, working on these issues. This is all. And one more….
N. Goksadze. Rustavi 2, Mr. Usuapshvili stated that the conversation is on some other schemes and today you are not going to discuss this issue, but I still would like to ask. There was the precondition, ultimatum that if the Constitutional change is not adopted, envisaging restriction of the authority of the President in this part, then the Parliament will not listen to the President. Have you spoken about this and will there be another similar ultimatum and what compromises can be found regarding the Constitutional changes?
D. Usupashvili. Please, after you.
M. Saakashvili. The only thing I understood, is that I do not think that it was the ultimatum, the only thing I understood, if Mr. Usupashvili is aware of this, the MPs are under pressure. I can name the concrete example. MP, Mr. Lemonjava, a very good Mayor of Poti, who was the Prosecutor, the newly appointed Prosecutor raised his case as if Mr. Lemonjava destroyed his garage 3 years ago. Today, when this issue is being solved, and he noted that if we vote for you, than this fact will be forgiven. Tell me the country, where the similar facts occur.
D. Usupashvili. I can tell you, Mr. President, then which such country is, because we either can answer this question, or hold the public debates. I think, the question was another and we will speak about it if you want.
M. Saakashvili. I think the facts…
D. Usupashvili. What was the question, let us answer.
M. Saakashvili. Hold on, pressure in broad daylight, blackmail in medieval mob ways…
D. Usupashvili. Mr. Saakashvili, if we are on TV debates, I am ready, if we are in question and answer….
M. Saakashvili. If you like TV debates…
D. Usupashvili. Let it be so.
M. Saakashvili. Today, in a broad daylight, the MPs are under pressure to vote and when 100 MPs are under pressure to come to the Parliament. First of all, I will come to the Parliament, which is the Parliament of Georgia and is located in Kutaisi city, I will not go to another Parliament. Parliament for me is only in Kutaisi. As soon as the issue of moving Parliament will be raised, it will be illegal Constitutional coup and Georgia will appear in quite another political reality. So I would like the Government not to do it. I would like it to approach consensus, with 150 votes, consultations and not remembering the garages of the Prosecutors, not with arresting family members, but with Constitutional, open public dialogue, to change the Constitution together, to improve it and we are ready. This is one way and another way is to intimidate Mr. Lemonjava and arrest him. These are two ways, there is no the third way…
D. Usupashvili. Good, now I will tell you about the third way, the third way that was set out so clearly by the Parliament and I think that all of them have seen it and it is also written. We have not posed any ultimatums; we said that we will listen after the adoption of decision on this issue. We have not said whether this decision would be positive or negative, that is why, we, on our part, are not blackmailing anyone by this topic, by the issue of the President’s coming to the Parliament. We are saying that after adoption of the decision we are ready. The decision will be of this or of that kind, we don’t know what type of decision it will be .As to Kutaisi, certainly, Mr. President, we are waiting for you in Kutaisi, certainly, we are not going to listen to you in November, in December, when the Parliament can by in some other place you will not be the President any more, consequently, this will happen only in Kutaisi…
M. Saakashvili. I have heard the first good news because you have actually abandoned the first blame – you are keeping Parliament in Kutaisi. Kutaisi population will be glad and some MPs will be simply upset….
D. Usupashvili. You have ruined and demolished the Parliament’s building so much that there will be needed 6 months to improve it, so… This is. As to the main topic, I am repeating the main topic, based on the interests of the issue certainly, I will not debate with Mikheil Saakashvili on all the issues but why not – if he is interested, I would speak with him on very many topics, 8th of February, 26th of May, 7th of November and also many other topics. But we have gathered here to define the tomorrow, not my, Mikheil’s, David’s or Bidzina’s tomorrow but the country’s tomorrow. That is why, I have come here, based on the interests of the topic and I will come again, whether it will be required twice or three times. That is the attitude of us, of the Coalition “Georgian Dream” and we will act this way because the choice of the Georgian people that was demonstrated in October means that the responsibility is on us and now Mr. Mikheil, as the leader of the opposition, certainly has more freedom of speech without justification, just as I had a year ago when I was in opposition. But we are in power and that is why, we are interested in business, in future and I am reiterating that today’s meeting demonstrated perspective of the adoption of correct decisions. I would have a wish, not request or advice, of course, it is none of my business but wish that everyone would be business minded on this issues- Minority, President and me. I am sure that they are willing to do so but I would wish once more to have even more willingness and we will adopt appropriate decisions, the decisions that will calm down the country and will move it forward.
M. Saakashvili. Exactly, I think that we should be oriented to the future. We are exactly ready. Unfortunately, what we say that is the present, is the present. The things that happened three days ago are the present. The present is what happens with the deputies now. This is the hard present. The things that are happening to the local self governance, this is the present. This is the present that can pose threat to tomorrow. We should finish this. I think that everyone understood that political tasks are not solved by these methods. I think that this is the only way of solution of political tasks, which we studied from 1990s and we and you were participants in 90s of all the processes, we were at least witnesses, if not the participants. Starting from the autumn of 2000, Georgia, what we leant is the only way not fighting or confrontation, God save us from physical fighting and even worse, what happened in Georgia in the past. But the only way is the dialogue, public dialogue, so that the people can here, without any deals in back rooms or some methods. That is why, despite our contradictions, that is certainly, is the part of democracy, it shows us only that we shall continue the dialogue between us. I am glad that transfer from Kutaisi is not planned, as minimum, in the nearest weeks or months. It means that I still have a chance to address the Parliament of Georgia in this great building. I think that we should not have said “No” to this initially, and in such case we would have avoided all the complications of the day before. I think that by the address in the Parliament your members would have been much more happy than by what we have seen. This was a different possibility for the MPs to arrange for me even the analysis on the issues, which you are mentioning. Som this chance was once missed. I am ready to take advantage of the chance, and to make Parliament take advantage of it second, third times, whenever it is possible. The Parliament has many criticisms and I am not just the leader of the opposition, I am first of all the President of Georgia. The opposition has many other leaders in Georgia. It is important for me to keep the political system in Georgia: residence of Parliament in Kutaisi – this is not the issue of opposition, this is Georgia’s national issue, direct elections and maintenance of democracy, this is not an issue of opposition, this is national issue of Georgia and it is matter of concern for you and for us. Order in streets – this is common national issue, foreign policy – this is common national issue. That is why we should sit and continue discussion on these issues. The present talks were just about this. We are arguing much less in camera but when we see the journalists, certainly, we are eager to defend the positions. But in any case, I think that it is productively open and…closed discussion. So,
D. Usupashvili. – Yes, agree. Mr. President is a host today and that is why the last word is on him. When he comes to the Parliament then I will speak a little bit more. Thank you very much.